Episode 97 "The One With White Beard K9" with Special Guest Howard Young

Speaker 1: 0:00

One of the things that kind of manifested itself from that was the two of the teams were really really lacking and in my recommendation I recommended that they go back for some remedial training. It was at that point he called me into his office and said I'd like to offer you a job. So it was a unique situation that I don't know that any police departments that were hiring young civilian males to basically take their canine program and run with it and fast forward 30 years. I'm still doing it and I've picked up some other agencies. We've had several changes of police chiefs and we've just become a very integral part of our community and that police department and now our local sheriff's office as well Just never look back what is going on everybody?

Speaker 2: 0:59

welcome back to the big dog Background. But I got a good friend of mine. The best beard in the dog business is with us this morning, Howard Young with White Beard. Canine Howard, how are you, buddy?

Speaker 1: 1:12

I'm very well. How about you?

Speaker 2: 1:13

Man, I'm just excited to have you on here. You know, I guess we met at my facility a couple of years ago at a Steve Stoops seminar. Yes, indeed yes, that he did a Steve Stoops seminar. Yes, indeed.

Speaker 1: 1:25

Yes, that he did. You guys, you and your wife, were up from North Carolina, right, yes, we were. Yes, we have known, we have known Steve a pretty long time and when he went off to do his army thing he really was, we really lost touch. So it was a unique opportunity to kind of get together and see him again.

Speaker 2: 1:40

Yeah, that was a wild time, that was a fun, fun couple of days.

Speaker 1: 1:44

It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 2: 1:45

Yeah, that was cool. We met so many great people and you and your wife are a part of that and we've been talking about ever since like doing a show together. And you know, life just does its thing and runs. You retired now since then. Right, because you weren't retired at the seminar.

Speaker 1: 2:01

So really I've had several things going on for the past 30 some years, but the dog business has always been kind of a secondary thing. Yeah, so I was a mental health professional for about 22 years and then I was in public education for a number of years and that's what I ended up retiring from, and the whole purpose of that was to be able to do more dog-related things before I get too old and decrepit to be able to do it anymore.

Speaker 2: 2:26

So how did you get into the dog world? Let's talk about that a little bit.

Speaker 1: 2:29

Well, it's a unique situation in that when I got out of college, the first thing I wanted to do was get a dog. I was really interested in working dogs and Rottweilers were my breed of choice at the time and that was my. I had German Shepherds growing up but I really wanted a Rottweiler and at that time in the early 80s, they weren't very well known, at least in this country. So it wasn't that difficult to find some good working dogs still and I got involved with a Schutzen actually it wasn't Schutzen Club yet, it was with a gentleman that trained some police dogs and it was one of those perfect storm situations being there the right time. He had a decoy that had just left and I was young and fit enough to do it and eager to learn. So I started learning how to do that and he also trained a number of protection dogs. But he introduced me to this board of Schutzen and we started a club and, not to make a super long story out of this, I started having some of the local police officers saw some of the work I was doing and they started coming by with problems, mainly engagement issues and dogs that just didn't bite well and they didn't have great control. So they started coming to, some of them on the sly, which was not real cool, I guess. Some of them on the sly, which was not real cool, I guess.

Speaker 1: 3:47

But what ended up happening is that the local new police chief wanted me to evaluate the four teams they had and I put together some scenarios that I felt like were fair and one of the things that kind of manifested itself from that was the two of the teams were really really lacking and in my recommendation I recommended that they go back for some remedial training. It was at that point he called me into his office and said I'd like to offer you a job. So it was a unique situation that I don't know that any police departments that were hiring young civilian males to basically take their canine program and run with it and fast forward 30 years. I'm still doing it and I've picked up some other agencies. We've had several changes of police chiefs and we've just become a very integral part of our community and that police department and now our local sheriff's office as well, and just never look back.

Speaker 2: 4:36

Yeah, that's incredible. And so so talk to me about what is the? I mean, obviously you were talking about kind of like your, your professional. You know, course, you know through your life the things you were doing, and the common denominator between all of those are selflessness and service, areas of service and kind of having to excel in those fields. And particularly with what you're doing now with the dogs and work with the departments, there is this servant's heart aspect. You know if you will, and so kind of talk about how, as you're, as you're coming up, you know through your life, professionally, the dog thing was never the primary thing, it was like the secondary thing. But how did those passions, were they over to overlap? And when did you know the dogs you needed to get yourself in a position to go primarily with the dogs.

Speaker 1: 5:22

Well, I think one of the ways that I've been able to stay so I never experienced burnout, and I think some of that was because that has always been kind of a secondary thing that I've done. But I would say in terms of this, I learned a lot in my job as a mental health professional. I worked in a rehabilitation program for folks with severe persistent mental illnesses, so illnesses like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and major depression. We operated a program that followed a model that was kind of unique in and of itself. It was out of New York City, a place called Fountain House, and when you think about traditional mental health you think about providing a service to help people get better. But the reality is we're dealing with illnesses that many people don't really ever recover from.

Speaker 2: 6:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:09

They're. They're they're lifelong illnesses and you go to mental health for treatment, and treatment is a is a vital part of what needs to happen. But really, where the where the tire hits, the hits the road is is the rehabilitation part. And that's where we came in is that we had a program that by design, the lines were kind of blurred between the staff members and actually we refer to it as a club. So it was a voluntary program and we at one point in our small community had upwards of 70 people coming a day and it was a model for the state. So we did a tremendous amount of training ourselves.

Speaker 1: 6:47

But what was unique about it is that it focused on people's talents and skills rather than deficits, and that was really. The major difference is that we weren't interested in what was wrong with you. We wanted to find out what skills you had and put it to use. So as you would come to this program, you would see people that were actively involved in the running of it. So we had a snack bar, we had a kitchen that provided lunch every day, we had a clerical unit that put out a newsletter and assisted with billing, and it was just a phenomenally run place and I think it's funniest that when your typical mental health professional thinks about a voluntary program, they would think that people wouldn't come or they wouldn't do anything.

Speaker 1: 7:31

But here, on a rainy let's say, a rainy Monday morning and you've got 70 people that showed up that had a choice of rolling over and going back to sleep and just drawing their disability check. So you know, there were some powerful things that were going on there and it was just a it really it was a place that taught me the, I guess, the value of people, regardless of their station in life or regardless of what's going on in their lives, and to treat, you know, everyone with dignity and respect, and I think that's that's carried over probably the most in terms of, you know, just dealing with people in general.

Speaker 2: 8:05

Right, you know it's funny. It's, you know, the thing you said about focusing on their strengths, interests, passions, rather than letting the focus be on their deficits, when a lot of folks in those situations whether it's something that's a season of life or it is a lifelong illness challenge that they're going to have most people don't approach them or treat them from that aspect. The focus is solely on the deficit, and it's either, you know, brushing people aside, dismissing them, definitely not treated with respect. A lot of times, you see it, and the thing that's not ha ha funny, but funny is the correlation between people and dogs in that regard, and you know, in in my world, in the dog world I'm not on the working dog side, I'm all pets, but so often, all we're hearing from people are the deficit of these dogs, and you got to take, you got to fix this, you got to do this and you got to do that. You know and it's so funny because it's it we're not curing cancer here, you know. Know, I mean, we're both. Well, what we are doing, though, is we're getting these dogs. We're folks. What do you do, well, what do you enjoy? What gets your confidence up, what gets you more engaged with me and it's funny how so often the deficit, a lot of these times with these dogs, we see isn't something that's cured, it's a managed thing, right, but it becomes so much more manageable when the dog realizes there's more to them than the deficit. But if all your, if all we focused on from a handling standpoint was deficit, deficit, deficit, deficit, deficit, you're gonna have a broke down, beaten down, skittish dog, just as you would a person or a kid who was treated that way. And now they're an adult and you wonder why. You know they can't be in relationships, they can't communicate, they can't hold a job, they can't, you know, do anything society would deem worthwhile, but they've just been told over and over again that they're not worthwhile, brutal, and we see that with the dogs all the time, all the time. So on the working dog side, I know you had that interest, you got those rotties.

Speaker 2: 10:11

I have a roddy myself. Um, we've got rocky. He's about 140, he looks like a freaking wine barrel. But he doesn't look like a wine barrel, he's actually just just jacked and he's an athlete. I trained him when he was a pup and I fell in love with him and I told the owners when I took him back to him at the end of training. Look guys, if life ever happens and you can't keep this dog I'm your first phone call and they were a little older and her parents are much like in their 90s and they ended up moving in with them. And old Rocky, you know, he was 10 months old when I trained him and he was about three or four when I got the phone call from him and he had just leaned against her mama, not anything just and she went toppling over and her father was ready to kill the dog. Like actually had a shotgun. I was going to kill the dog. So she calls me like bring him to me.

Speaker 2: 11:02

And now my wife has a huge rottweiler. That is my wife's dog through and through, but we've always had rotties and grew up with them. They're amazing dogs. I love them. Our house looks ridiculous. So we have this, this rottweiler the size of a tank. We have a 53 pound little hunting lab, charlotte, and then we just got this miniature australian labradoodle. She's a year and so we look like the weirdest house on the street because we've got from, you know, terror and rocky to this little like build-a-bear thing walking around.

Speaker 2: 11:33

And here I am, big old bearded guy carrying this little doodle puppy. But it's the funniest thing. She's the dog I never knew I needed and she's just a great, great little dog. Um, but I I try to imagine like man. You are really convenient. You don't shed, you don't barrel through the house like a bull in a china shop. Rocky's a very good dog, but he's a grown man. It's like another grown man living in the house and you know Roddy's and their personalities and you got to earn it every day with them. But I was like man. I really can't imagine a time in my life where I wouldn't want to not have Rottweilers. I just I love them. I love them. They're wonderful dogs, incredible dogs. What's your crew look like now? What are you?

Speaker 1: 12:15

you still running some Rotties or no, no, haven't had Rottweiler in a good long while. We do have a Dutch Shepherd that is. That is really quite a handful Typical Dutch Shepherd. He was very slow to mature, but he's a force.

Speaker 2: 12:31

What are you finding? So I know you work with several different agencies. You're working with that local department still that you've worked with for years. What are some of the biggest changes you've kind of seen in the industry over the last? You know, 10, 15, 20 years? You know whether it's education, whether it's dogs, whether it's ongoing training, Cause I think that's an important thing that people don't really realize. They see, this is most people's understanding of a canine in lawn. For they see the car drive by, they see canine sticker on it and like, Ooh, they got one of those cool dogs.

Speaker 2: 13:07

And I've seen horror stories of dogs that were ill prepared, that weren't trained Well, they didn't have the background. Or my favorite is I get the phone call hey, I got a German shepherd I need, I need it to be a protection dog. Hey, I got myself one of these Belgian malinois and I want you to train it to to protect my family. I hold on, You're so off base right now. Well, German shepherd, what do you mean? It can't do it? Like, well, there's a lot of things that go into this. And well, I'm just going to donate it to the police department if you won't stop peeing in the house. And I'm like hold on, Can you like how people think about this? And I don't necessarily think they realize the importance of the training and relevant training that goes into the dogs. So can you talk about that a little bit?

Speaker 1: 13:59

Sure, you know, I like to think that what we try to procure for the agencies are really the professional athletes of the dog world, and in that we're looking for dogs that are obviously environmentally sound. And more specifically, what I mean by that is that, regardless of where they are, where they go, they kind of either are neutral to the environment or they're confident in the way they carry themselves. So they have to be exposed to slick floors, all varieties of stairs, possibly an elevator, loud noises, and we really don't get too terribly concerned if there's a little bit of a reaction. It's just how quick do they recover from that reaction, right? It's just how quick do they recover from that reaction, right? So in some cases, you know, we're getting dogs Well, we are getting most of our dogs from Europe, in fact almost all of them, and we don't really know how they've been raised.

Speaker 1: 14:52

You can kind of surmise the longer you have it, you can tell if it's been raised in a home or if it's been raised in a setting where the only thing it's really ever seen is a green grass in a field. So those dogs it's nice to have that information up front because they may encounter their first vacuum cleaner on wheels and that's the freakiest thing they've ever seen in their lives and they might have a reaction to that. But day two they might go no big deal I've seen it before.

Speaker 1: 15:22

So those are the kind of things that we have to consider and what we bank on is that those things have been sorted out before we ever lay eyes on the candidates. Yeah, so I've used a number of vendors here in the States over the years, but the last probably five or six years I've been relying on a gentleman in Europe and I've bought them primarily just through video. But more importantly is a year and a half relationship of talking about what I need.

Speaker 2: 15:50

Yep.

Speaker 1: 15:53

And a little measure, well, a big measure of trust in that he's not going to send me a dog that I can't use, and so far he's really he's been like six for seven on terms of dogs and to me that's vitally important and to have that relationship at this point, this, this would be somebody, if he came to the States, I'd welcome in my home. You know you can stay here, but there are plenty of people out there that want to take advantage or, and the people that are eager to you know easily taken advantage of, right. So during that year and a half I wanted him to know many things, I wanted him to know who I was, and it would not behoove him to send me anything that wouldn't be good, right Cause the word's going to get out Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 16:37

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So now you're helping agencies with placement, you're helping agencies with ongoing training. Talk to us a little bit about what that looks like. How often are you going in and maybe like certifying or recertifying or helping teams get you know? Maybe something happened. You need to help get them back in the game a little bit.

Speaker 1: 16:58

So my primary position really is two contracts with the local agencies, and the way I like to look at that is that I don't know that I really want to be in the business of just procuring dogs for different agencies. I want to have hands-on from the very beginning and then throughout the career. So in our contracts we basically provide the training, we procure the dog, we provide the training and the training. We basically provide the training. We procure the dog, we provide the training and the training once we start never ends. So an example is tonight I'll have a group of gentlemen and we meet one agency I meet with twice a week and the other one once a week. So we get at least 16 hours of training in a month typically more.

Speaker 1: 17:41

And I think that's really been the secret sauce in some respects, because a lot of training groups are set up so that they meet once or twice a month. I prefer to have the weekly contact, if not twice a week contact, and even though it's not a full eight-hour day, I think we probably accomplish more in four hours than a lot of people do in an eight hour day.

Speaker 2: 18:01

To start factoring in breaks and lunch and errands yeah, it's so interesting to me within that world there, because you think about when these dogs are going to work and you're talking about, like the pro athlete of the dog world you're, you're looking for, you know you need that elite animal who not only physically is sound but mentally, emotionally, um, you know it, you don't mind it. You know getting caught off guard a little bit, but how quickly does it respond, get back into the fight? Uh, whatever it is, you know how quickly can it recover and the importance of that. You know if a dog is released to engage and that dog hesitates, or that dog, you know, freaks out because it goes into a building and it's a dark room or a dark corridor and it hasn't seen these things before, right, you know it's, these dogs, it's almost ill-prepared, are a liability, oh for sure, to the officers on site. You know to everybody, these dogs, it's almost ill-prepared, are a liability, oh for sure, to the officers on site. You know to everybody.

Speaker 2: 19:17

And you know the preparation and the work that you're doing weekly, you know, is what makes sure that, hey, you can't anticipate everything possible, but it's almost not necessary. Once that dog is sound, you know the dog's like, okay, yeah, I've, I've, I've been around something like that before, or you know, this, this smell, this surface, this feeling, this I'm getting hit, I'm getting thrown, I'm getting shoved, I'm getting not a good bite, or you know, even in the in the bite work side that was one the things with steve that was so interesting to me during that seminar was like he wasn't using the suit, right like right, and I was. I'm just sitting there and logan, you know, I remember him saying too, he's like holy crap, he's just like offering his his shirt you know.

Speaker 2: 19:54

And here's this dog going buck wild, ready to roll, and he goes. Well, hey look, your bad guy's not gonna be running around in a you know, full suit and now in training. But then there's different variations of the suits and all this stuff. But the real life, practical situations that you can get those dogs into is just so vital for the safety and protection of everyone the dog, the handler, the other teams on site, um, and the bad guy. You know that they're getting after. You want that dog to respond. You know appropriately. What, um? What do you find? You know, with the dogs that you're looking for. What are those ages? You know that they come in or agency already has a dog. What are the where? Where are those dogs at? How often are the dogs usually in service before they retire them out? You know what's that look like.

Speaker 1: 20:44

So you were wanting to know what some of the differences are over the last 20 years. That's probably a primary difference. The age is much younger. Okay, we used to get dogs that were two and sometimes three, and really three years of age was kind of used to be my cutoff. Now, if a dog has been sitting in Europe for two or three years there, you got to be asking the question what's wrong with it? Right, they wouldn't. So we're getting dogs at a much younger age. We've had a couple that we've brought in at 10 months, which that's young, yeah, but the thing is my process could take upwards of six months. So I don't mind taking a younger dog and take my time slow and develop it slowly and allow it to mature.

Speaker 1: 21:28

You know we bank on a good bit of generalization, which is what you were talking about in terms of preparing the dog, and that is a good portion of what we do is we try to and you've probably heard this said before is that we look at it like we want to give the dog certain pictures for their portfolio and in that portfolio they're going to have certain things that they've seen before that it's going to click for them. Yeah, I've done this before, but what's interesting, though, is that sometimes we have and it's not talked about enough, I don't think is that there are failures to engage, sometimes early on, and it's typically as a result of not having the appropriate number of pictures. So, you know, we see dogs on social media that fail and people go oh, that's terrible, you know, terrible training, terrible dog. Well, nine times out of 10, it's probably not the dog, it is probably confusion.

Speaker 2: 22:23

Yep.

Speaker 1: 22:24

And you mentioned the suit. Yeah, that's equipment. That's equipment to protect us. Okay, for the dog, what it does is that he figures out the game. I mean, they're masters of association. They can spot a suit a mile away, right, yeah, if they've seen one. Yep, they could spot a suit a mile away, right, yeah, if they've seen one, yeah. So, yes, we're. We're constantly looking to find ways to make the picture look more realistic, yeah, and there's all kinds of ways to do that. And you know, steve is very entertaining in the way he does that, but he's the shirt.

Speaker 1: 22:55

Yeah, the shirt thing I I've done here it's funny and I I got it from him and the reaction is really quite done here. It's funny and I got it from him and the reaction is really quite comical, because it's not as sketchy as it looks.

Speaker 2: 23:07

Right, right, you're paying attention. You're a pro, you know where you're at.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Steve knows where he's at, he's put a lot of trust in the person on the other side of that line, though Well, that's usually the comment that I get is that they don't trust anybody well enough to do that.

Speaker 2: 23:21

Yeah, I thought the dog were worried about. You know, I know what the dog's going to do Exactly. That's funny. That's funny. So you know what's the next five, 10 years look like you know for for you and kind of the the agencies you work with there locally down in North Carolina, like what are those priorities with those teams and that you're really trying to help them accomplish or levels that they get to. You know, are you doing? You know, are you doing tracking, trailing at all with these teams? Yes, so you're across the board.

Speaker 1: 23:53

Yes, they do detection, they do tracking, building search. The big thing is that there's always been a tremendous I'd say tremendous, it's always been turnover. It's kind of expected, especially in a relatively small agency. So one of the things that can possibly happen is that if a gentleman or lady is career-minded and they get into K-9, even if that's what they've always wanted to do, at some point down the road whether it's three years, five years or sometimes even less they're going to feel tugged to get experience in other aspects of the agency. Right, right, so what? What that forces us to have to do is to find another suitable handler and then start the process again. So one of the things you were asking about length of service too, in terms of dogs, we've got a 10 year old Dutch shepherd. He's going to be 10 in May and he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

Speaker 2: 24:45

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:45

The way I look at it, he's trained five handlers in his career. That's crazy. That's. That's an, you know, an unusual number, but it's not unusual to have at least two or three handlers per dog, and if we'd like to look at maybe a dog making it to at least his eighth birthday um, depends on the breed, you know, the back in the day, the bigger, older shepherds didn't, didn't hold up as well. Some of these hard charging malinois and duchies just don't seem to ever slow down. So right, yeah, you know, and like with this dog, it's hard to know. We don't want to, we don't want to run him into the ground, but the reality is, is he's not like a human? He's not sitting around counting the days till he retires. Right, he lived day to day. He just wants to.

Speaker 2: 25:30

He's loving the game.

Speaker 1: 25:32

He is.

Speaker 2: 25:32

And if he's loving the game and wants to work and physically he's able, I mean I'm with you. I mean let him do his deal. Yeah, Cause there isn't that clock in their mind.

Speaker 1: 25:43

Nope, that's a completely human construct. A hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 25:47

I mean hell, from the dog's aspect. The dog's probably thinking, hey, if I slow down, that's it Right. Like I can't slow down, I got to keep going, I got to keep. That's actually funny. We were last night. We have sunday supper at my house. My mom, my grandmother, come over. You know, my kids are there and it's open. Anybody who wants to come over, come over. But typically it's just, you know, the six or seven of us.

Speaker 2: 26:10

And my grandmother was talking about a friend of hers, uh, who's just been in and out of the hospital last couple years or last couple months, and she's getting pretty nervous because she's like, ah, I just don't have a good feeling about this, you know. And she's getting pretty nervous Cause she's like, ah, I just don't have a good feeling about this, you know, and she's in her eighties and, um, cause, this is why you can't stop moving, got to keep moving, you got to keep. You know, my grandmother, she, you know, she goes to exercise like twice a week and, you know, does her little dances at the house and you know, and she's always running and gunning and doing something, but she goes, yeah, she goes. You got you stop moving.

Speaker 1: 26:42

Everything's going to stop working, you know and there's a lot of truth to that.

Speaker 2: 26:46

You know that she was talking about her friend. She was like yeah, she has a lot of health issues and smoke for seven, 60 years and you know all this other stuff and whatever which is eventually it catches up to you and she goes yep, and that's why she goes. I don't even take tylenol, never had to have a surgery, never had. She's 86 years old, she's never had a surgery, never broken a bone, and she's wild like. She is a wide-ass, open lady, she's the best. But she, she's like just gotta keep moving, just gotta keep moving. And I'm like dang, you were talking about that dutchie and I'm like that's mom, yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:17

Buddy told me, emotion is lotion.

Speaker 2: 27:20

Yeah, that's amazing, that's incredible. So what do you got big going on coming up? Anything on the calendar, any big events or anything like that?

Speaker 1: 27:30

Yes, Actually several Going to Georgia Columbus, georgia for a decoy seminar in a couple weeks and then we've got a trip to another decoy seminar in Indiana. Then we've got Hold the Line Conference in Myrtle Beach, going back to Connecticut to work with the Connecticut State Police on another decoy seminar and then going out to Colorado for a seminar and then I've got another one in Indiana. But we're busy.

Speaker 2: 27:58

I mean it's good. Yeah, that's really great, and you and the wife travel together on these things.

Speaker 1: 28:03

Well, it's funny because she just retired too. So she retired like a month ago and she initially was saying she was going to go on all these trips she's already backing out. So she's going to be able, all these trips she's already backing out, so she's going to be able to pick and choose what she wants to go. So I take a gentleman with me on most of these T-Clo workshops. That's Mike Santana, who is a trainer down in Georgia. He was just a young guy who's just. I think he's phenomenal, he's we're we're very like-minded in that we're both relatively quiet and don't like to be standing at the forefront. So it's nice to have an additional person there. We kind of bounce off of each other and I don't really feel like I'm bringing him into the fold, but I do feel like he's a talent that should be recognized and utilized.

Speaker 2: 28:50

That's great, and you've got a podcast also I do. It's called the.

Speaker 1: 28:54

Working Dog Depot. It's the Working Dog Depot. I don't know what your venture was like, but when we started we floundered. We did six episodes that we recorded on Skype and we didn't have a clue what we were doing. We didn't feel like we had any good resources and then finally it just died. And then we made a second attempt and we actually got it resources and then finally we got we just it just died. And then we we made a second attempt and we actually got it going. But what it took was really reaching out to some people and just asking questions, specific questions, and realizing that we were going to have to pay for some services. Yeah, cause I tried editing an episode and it was okay, but I felt like the learning curve was like, by the time I learned how to do this and I tried to do it the next time I'm starting all over yeah, I didn't want to do so.

Speaker 1: 29:42

We are into our second year, we've got, we're actually we have a recording with the gentleman in belgium uh, part two tonight or this afternoon, because six hour difference, sure, and uh, it's been, it's been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: 29:55

We've picked up some sponsors, that some really good folks and well-named folks, which is neat, that's cool but it's really geared, I guess, more toward I think canine handlers have gravitated toward it the most and in it, from the content aspect, you can kind of see why they're they're. They're looking for answers and they're looking for for more information and, uh, both rich and I are kind of low key. We're not going to stand up and beat our chest. We, right, we want to hear what our you know, our guests have to say, because we certainly don't know everything yeah, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 2: 30:30

No, I love it and I can totally relate when we I mean, I talked about it for years before I finally started it and my thing was I was so hung up on everything needed to sound right, look right, like I wanted the studio to look a certain way. I mean, I was all the stuff I cared about really didn't matter, right, the most important thing is just starting and doing it.

Speaker 2: 30:51

And but I was hung up on certain things and so we did that and now half time I'm not even in the studio, I'm in my office, like I am now from our place over there and oh yeah, yeah, you saw the, the setup, and we're getting ready to change that up because we're going to start letting people use our studio space and so we're moving it into a larger space to where there'll be my setup studio, designed how I want it to be. Anybody can use it, but then there's going to be a totally different vibe on the other side of the room that someone could use and shoot and we have all the cameras and lights and all that stuff. But half the time I'm just in my office, you know, like this, doing it, and it's it's just doing it and it's good conversations and the ones I thought were going to be bangers and just everybody's going to love and my gosh it. You know my mom and grandma listen to it, right. And then the one I think is going to kind of, you know, might be okay, but there were some little tidbits. I'll get the greatest feedback from people and I was like man, that's really cool. And the thing with the, the show that I've always said I was like man. That's really cool. And the thing with the show that I've always said I was like man.

Speaker 2: 31:58

If, if, out of the episode, I'm able to introduce somebody to someone, or someone is able to take one thing out of it, one thing out of it that that helps them. One person gets one thing. That's totally worth it to me. It's totally worth it to me. It's totally worth it to me. It's worth the time If I can introduce you know you, howard Young, to, to, to my network and my listeners and they can get dialed in with your show and learn more about you and what you're doing. They're going to get so much value out of listening to you and the interviews you have and and stuff like that's so worth it to me and I just think that you know my show for the last two years has not been dog driven at all.

Speaker 2: 32:37

We don't talk dogs a whole lot. We talk business, we talk life, we talk family, you know, and a lot of it's business driven and entrepreneurial driven. But it was never going to be about the dog stuff. But of late I'm like man a lot of the dog community really gets on my nerves. It's so split, it's so split and I really want people to realize the resources we have in each other and it's always just opportunities to learn.

Speaker 2: 33:10

And when you stop learning, I think it's the same thing as you stop moving. You know, the motion is lotion. You're talking about the same thing with the learning. Like you, just you die, whether it's this business or anything else. If you think you know it all, you're done. And when I was younger I felt this need to present as if I knew it all. Now I'm like guys, I'm an idiot, I'm dumb. Dumb as I'm an idiot. I'm dumb as hell. I don't know anything. It's funny that now I try to tell the world about that on different platforms, but it's an opportunity to learn and hear stories and grow. I don't know. That's just what it's about for me. I don't care if I got 10 listeners or a you know a million listeners. If someone can walk away with something, I feel good about it.

Speaker 1: 33:58

Right, I feel like I'm terrible at predicting how successful an episode is going to be. If there's one that touches my heart and I think it's going to be a good one, and it's just doesn't have an effect on anybody, you're like no?

Speaker 2: 34:15

look what you got to show up and you got to do it again. Yeah, and in the beginning, when those numbers are really humbling, you know it's so easy to say, all right, you know well, we don't need to prioritize this right, and you know if you're at how many episodes now uh, we, it would be 36.

Speaker 2: 34:37

Okay, dude, you're probably honestly, probably top 20% of podcasts of all time. Most podcasts don't get past seven or eight episodes. Wow, they never do. It's some crazy stat and so really really good on you. I mean that's hard. 30 some odd episodes of content or guests that you're interviewing, I mean that's really really hard. So really I'm really proud of you, I mean because that's that's a tough thing to do. Everybody says they want to do it, but it's it's funny.

Speaker 1: 35:10

When rich contacted me my co-host before Well, he said, called me one day, just got out of the blue, we didn't talk a lot. He said, hey, I'm thinking about starting a podcast and I said, wow, that's great, let me know how it turns out. He said, no, I want you to do it with me. I said OK, we had no idea what we were going to do. I said okay, and we had no idea what we were going to do, but he really, you know, it was really his design to have just good conversation. Yeah, and that's the vibe we've tried to project, I think you know. So far we've pulled it off. We've not had any guests that I feel like were, you know, nasty or terrible. I think that everyone is there. I will say there's probably some folks that I that I would just rather not interview, but I think, that's fair yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:03

Yeah, that's super fair and it's your show, so you don't have to but I, you know, I'm not opposed to having somebody that might be viewed as a little I don't know offbeat.

Speaker 2: 36:17

Yeah, sure, my thing is, I don't got to agree with everything, sure, right, but are you a good human being, right? Can we have a conversation? If you're just a dirtbag human being, I'm not interested in really having a conversation. Maybe that's just me, because with you it's easy. I'm like howard, I gotta have on this thing. Oh, because it is good.

Speaker 2: 36:39

Good people you know your wife, are good people and you know you're doing great stuff in the, in the community, not just your community, but like in the dog world itself, and you're super well respected and you, you are absolutely. You said you're like I'm kind of. I'm kind of, you know, I'm quiet, you know, not trying to be in the forefront, but you have the wisdom to be in the forefront and you have that to share and give. So I love the podcast, I love the seminars that you're attending and doing. You know I think it's a really big deal, um, and it's really great and I love that. It's a passion that you had for so long and it's really great and I love that it's a passion that you had for so long and it's still there. The desire is still there and that's when you know it's life right and that's so cool to me to, to see, and and um and promote well you know the other thing, you're talking about things that have changed.

Speaker 1: 37:32

I think the the Internet has certainly impacted this industry greatly. You know I can't I'm sure it has the pet world, but it certainly has. What I do as well, and you know, there it's. I've always tried to stay out of the drama and I think I've, for the most part, I've managed that and I think I've for the most part I've managed that. I think I've, if I like a nickel for about every post that I've ever typed up and then deleted because I actually thought it through, because it's just not worth it. You know we have this thing about yeah, we talk about, you know we liken it to a tug of rope.

Speaker 1: 38:18

You know, just don't pick up the rope, can't play.

Speaker 2: 38:20

Right, just don't pick it up. Easier said than done a lot of times. Oh, for sure, yeah, for sure you know the typing of it and deleting. That's good. I can think of a lot of times I wish I had deleted instead of hit. Send Emails, text messages through media oh my gosh, um, that's funny. That's funny. So how can people connect with you? How can? What's it? What's a good way for them to to connect with you, howard and you know, follow you, learn more about what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 38:50

Uh, facebook is a great place. I do do a good bit of posting. Uh, it is. It's howard, young and I also have another page whitebeard canine. The uh instagram is howard, underscore wb, wb canine. We don't have a website yet, but it is on my wife's list since she's now retired. So one of the reasons why I've kind of been reluctant to do that is that we're we're plenty busy. I mean yeah, yeah, and I thought that maybe a website make things, make things a little bit busier, but maybe not.

Speaker 2: 39:27

Well, yeah, you never know, and what a blessing, like I mean that's the fact that you're plenty busy. You know you're working with the people you want to work with. You know the dogs that you want to work with. Um, it's good to have those options. You know it's good to have those options and and figure out how you, in what ways you want to contribute and how, and stay with that. I mean you've earned that right, that's for sure. And Logan, well done with those. Um, those pop-ups man. Like that pop-ups man, that was so well-timed. I'm like geez man, he got it set up.

Speaker 1: 39:57

That was pretty slick.

Speaker 2: 39:59

Howard, I appreciate you. Man. I can't thank you enough for coming on for the show. I hope personally to see you soon. You're just down the road in North Carolina, so maybe we'll run into each other. I'd love to catch up with you guys.

Speaker 2: 40:14

If you're ever coming through, you know, just hit me up and we'll grab lunch or something on your middle of your travel, but I can't thank you enough for coming on the show and I just wish you and your wife the very best of health and wealth and life and impact. Um. I just think it's wonderful. You know everything you guys are doing, um doing, and I knew that you were good people the moment I met y'all at my place, so I appreciate you a lot, brother well, thank you.

Speaker 1: 40:42

Thank you for having me on absolutely.

Speaker 2: 40:44

Y'all follow my guy Howard. Hit him up if you got questions about the working dog world. Share the show. Let us know how you feel about it. If you learned anything, drop some questions for Howard and we'll send them over. You got his stuff on there and you can email them to me and I'll forward them out to him as well. So we'll catch you next time.